GREENE: Can you just help us understand what that systemic change is that you feel has to happen in Ferguson and hasn't happened when we've hit situations like this in the past? So Ferguson should become a model department for systemic change with the kinds of value statements that the new leadership will articulate and enforce. It's been about cleaning house in a particular department, identifying rotten apples and saying that now that we've removed those individuals, everything's going to be OK. And I think that's where this conversation has been for much of the last century. And I think it's not just about individuals. GREENE: I gather beyond, you know, changing people in these jobs, you see some more systemic problems that need to be taken care of as well. If I were a historian looking back on these events 50 years from now, I would tell this moment as the arc of a story of justice achieved in removing agents of oppression - not sufficient, but absolutely necessary. KHALIL GIBRAN MUHAMMAD: It's not only a solid first step, it is a necessary first step. We asked Professor Khalil Gibran Muhammad, director of the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture, if this was a solid first step. As we heard, a judge, the city manager and the police chief all stepped down this week. Let's continue the conversation about how a city like Ferguson and its police force can learn from what happened there.
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